Dating: The Double-Yellow Line Between Being Considerate And Being A Tool
LA Times publishes this series of lame dating pieces and this is one of them. A guy who seems to be a Mattel toy designer has a Tinder date. This is a dead giveaway that he's the sort of woman that gets walked on.
She said she lived in Beverly Hills. I suggested meeting at Urth Caffe so it would be convenient for her. What I didn't say is that I live in Santa Monica and I work in El Segundo, which meant making it to Beverly Hills on a weekday would be absolute torture. (Anyone who has seen "The Californians" on SNL knows what I am talking about.)
In other words, he bends over backward -- and then some -- for a total stranger. To the point where he goes through hours of hell in LA traffic.
It's great to be a guy who's considerate and who goes the extra mile -- once you have a girlfriend with an open heart who'll do the same for you.
But you can't just change the behavior; you have to change what's behind it -- probably some combo of dating out of your league and not having fixed whatever makes you feel all "I'm not worthy! I'm not worthy!"
Or this is what happens to you:
The drive took almost two hours. Still, I found parking and made it to Urth with 10 minutes to spare. When I arrived, however, I got a message telling me she was actually about two miles away, at the SLS Hotel on La Cienega Boulevard. She was there getting her hair done "for tomorrow's shoot" and asked if I wanted to meet there instead. It was going to be either a 30-minute drive in traffic or a 20-minute walk, so I decided to keep my parking spot and headed on over.I messaged when I reached the hotel, and she told me she still needed about 10 minutes. I said I'd be at the hotel bar.
Thirty minutes later ... she texted that she was "still getting worked on."
Fifteen minutes later (about an hour and a half since I arrived in Beverly Hills, and over three hours since I left my job), she messaged that she was on her way down.
She looked good, not amazing, but like her photos. I complimented her hair and went in for a friendly hug. She responded with a light, impersonal and slightly awkward embrace.
She looked at me and said, "You look nothing like your pictures!," to which I responded "You mean in a good way, I hope."
She just looked down.
I asked if she wanted to go back to Urth. She said "You're welcome to walk back and I'll meet you there," which I now realize was her first try at an exit strategy.
I suggested we just stay in the lobby for drinks. I began with some small talk, including asking why she's new to Tinder.
"Well, I just broke up with my boyfriend. Actually we broke up last month, but just stopped sleeping together this week. Like yesterday."
OK ...
The guy blames the fact that she's a lingerie model/actress/whatever.
Okay, sure, maybe she's looking for somebody richer or famous-er or whatever, but even if he dates girls who aren't looking for that, his problem will remain. (And no, it probably doesn't help that he's probably dating out of his league.)
But his real problem? It's not that he's a nice guy; it's that he's a pathetic guy who shows women he'll do anything to get them.
As I write in "Good Manners for Nice People Who Sometimes Say F*ck," first dates should be three things: Cheap, short, and local. And that's local for all involved, meaning you meet in the middle. You don't haul your ass through a traffic jungle so she won't have to muss her hair behind the wheel.
This says everything about you -- none of it good or helpful for getting a woman to do more than take you for a ride and then push you out the car door after you're doing paying for as much as she can squeeze out of you.







It's all a learning curve until you learn to make the rules that favor your needs.
Men have allowed women to do this (make the rules fit their needs) because as Harrison Ford said in one of his movies,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQ3Ux3hq3JA
Bob in Texas at July 24, 2016 7:22 AM
In real life, the guys who feel that way get girls like this -- to do stuff like (see above) this to them.
Amy Alkon at July 24, 2016 7:34 AM
>>Her feed was full of images of her in underwear and bathing suits, in racy and suggestive poses.
...and now you know why
momo at July 24, 2016 8:08 AM
"Local Doormat: 'Why Do People Keep Walking on Me?'"
Kevin at July 24, 2016 8:28 AM
Please. This guy's problem wasn't that he was too nice, he is an asshole who took a gamble and lost. He knew the likelihood of a lingerie model being into him was low, but the opportunity costs associated with the experierence weren't high enough to put him off. In fact, he knew if he made it hard for her to reach him, it wouldn't work out at all that is why he made the drive. He gambled and he lost and now he wants to be the victim. That's really unattractive, good luck with Tinder now! The moral of this story is if you are going to gamble on a long shot, don't blame the horse when you lose.
Sheep Mom at July 24, 2016 8:39 AM
The more desirable than you a person is, the less he or she has to try. Everyone subconsciously understands this math, especially hot people.
Chris Rock in the 90s: "You know how much it would cost Tyra Banks to go around the world? About 75 cents."
If you're pursuing someone out of your league, you have to create the illusion of being more desirable than you are, and that means playing hard to get, keeping a cool demeanor, and not tolerating rudeness. This creates intrigue.
When you make it clear you'd do anything for a date, you are broadcasting directly to the other person that he or she can do better.
"Cheap, short, and local" is some of the best first-date advice I've ever heard, because it keeps men from feeling resentful and women from feeling guilty if it doesn't work out.
Insufficient Poison at July 24, 2016 11:05 AM
@sheepmom +2
@InsufficientPoison +1
gooseegg at July 24, 2016 11:11 AM
There's a big difference between a 'guy-who-is-nice' versus a Nice Guy. Robert Glover wrote a book just for this type of chode, "No More Mr Nice Guy!"
I'll admit doing something similar-- drove from Nor Cal to meet an internet date who lived outside Palmdale. I rationalized the trip by telling myself that I was at least going there to look around, and also going outside my comfort zone. Nothing came of it, but I didn't have any regrets, either.
jefe at July 24, 2016 1:59 PM
If I ran into a purported lingerie model w/ lots of racy pics in their Tinder profile, I'd question whether she's an escort. And especially if she gave me the run around and had me go to an intermediate location before giving me her actual location - that's a tactic escorts use to check out the client.
FWIW Twitter is the new backpage for escorts, especially in regions like LA and NYC. It's easy for them to pose as a regular dater, but reveal enough that someone looking for an escort can infer what they're up to.
This guy may have stumbled on a working girl and not realized it.
ha ha at July 24, 2016 2:03 PM
If you're pursuing someone out of your league, you have to create the illusion of being more desirable than you are, and that means playing hard to get, keeping a cool demeanor, and not tolerating rudeness. This creates intrigue.
_____________________________________
And when you're a teen and you'd be glad just to have your existence acknowledged in a positive way by the people around you...
...kids need to learn that yes, it IS worthwhile to make the effort to be well-groomed and well-mannered, at the very least, and that if you're young and thin but still truly homely, your best bet for popularity is to act so cheerfully busy that you don't SEEM to have time to worry about whether you have a date for the weekend or not. The appearance of self-confidence is everything.
lenona at July 24, 2016 3:07 PM
lenona, "The appearance of self-confidence is everything."
This is very true and is perhaps the biggest step to being successful. Putting failures behind you because you are confident you can press on and succeed.
If this guy had had that confidence he would have shrugged this off and moved on. Instead his attitude shows he really does not expect to be successful at all.
Pirates rule.
Bob in Texas at July 24, 2016 3:39 PM
Even a hot lingerie model would not get me to bother driving 2 or 3 hours through big-city traffic to meet her. Perhaps he should be sampling the LOCAL cuisine.
mpetrie98 at July 24, 2016 4:15 PM
It seems there's a little more going on here, based on the comments to his article and the other copy of this article on his personal blog that they've found, which includes this woman's pictures and personal information.
This isn't just some 'nice guy' who found himself face to face with a rude lingerie model. Rather he deliberately misrepresented his appearance and background, then lashed out at this woman when she reacted negatively to his deception.
This is apparently a pattern for him. He chases models and they reject him because he doesn't have the looks or charisma. Then he accuses them of being shallow.
mel at July 24, 2016 5:28 PM
Found those. All his "athletic" pics hide the reality that he's bald because he's wearing hats and helmets. I'm not saying bald guys can't be hot--because so many are--but that might have been jarring if she was imagining a full head of hair.
lenona, the self-confidence lesson is one I would love to teach my 15-year-old self.
Insufficient Poison at July 24, 2016 9:24 PM
I asked if she wanted to go back to Urth.
"No," she said, "I prefer it out here on Earanus."
JD at July 24, 2016 9:54 PM
From Welby: "I asked her what that was about to which she responded she was an actress and model including some underwear adds, but nothing objectionable. My immediate thought was uhh ohh, RED FLAG, RED FLAG, but I decided, against my better judgment, that it would be wrong to dismiss her just because of her looks."
Yeah, guys. Give lingerie models a chance for once.
Insufficient Poison at July 25, 2016 4:43 AM
I'd give the guy half a break. There's no indication she knew how far he was willing to go--so to speak--to meet her. Perhaps there is geography on Tinder so maybe she did. So her judgment of him as a doormat probably didn't start there.
He didn't know she was going to be late, later and even later. Perhaps she didn't, either, but that's not the way to bet.
So, after you've sunk all that time and aggravation in LA traffic, what's another couple of hours?
The key would be what he would have done should another date have been in the works.
Is it possible that on-line communications give at least one side a false sense of intimacy and that "things" are going just dandy? Yeah, I suppose it is possible. In which case, the drive might seem more reasonable, from his point of view.
A blind date preceded by a phone conversation probably wouldn't have seemed so promising.
Decades ago, in my pre-married life, for an odd reason afaict, I seemed very un-needy. Wasn't my idea. But, in retrospect, it is probably why I have these warm fuzzy memories of various things for which there is no other explanation. Whatever a guy brings to the table is likely to be entirely offset by seeming needy.
Richard Aubrey at July 25, 2016 5:03 AM
Insufficient Poison: The more desirable than you a person is, the less he or she has to try. Everyone subconsciously understands this math, especially hot people.
Well said.
*
Writer: She looked at me and said, "You look nothing like your pictures!," to which I responded "You mean in a good way, I hope."
She just looked down.
I would think that if someone felt the other person looked different -- and better -- than their photos, they'd specifically say that. Simply saying "you look different than your photos" or "you look nothing like your photos" is, the way I see it, most likely negative and, in this specific case, the "she just looked down" confirms that.
JD at July 25, 2016 8:43 AM
""Cheap, short, and local" is some of the best first-date advice I've ever heard, because it keeps men from feeling resentful and women from feeling guilty if it doesn't work out"
"Cheap, short and local" is probably how the LW is best described...
Radwaste at July 25, 2016 12:13 PM
@"If you're pursuing someone out of your league, you have to create the illusion of being more desirable than you are"
He's a fit, 6'1 relatively good-looking guy in excellent athletic shape and who apparently makes decent money as an engineering grad ... what exactly does a man need to do to be considered being in a desirable "league"? No, I suspect the problem is probably that this guy has no game (and probably isn't the right personality fit for what the lady was looking for, I'm guessing); he probably could be dating swimsuit/lingerie models if he had better game; whether it's worth it is another question. I suspect he's probably one of those guys who's had it just-just easy enough with women that he's never quite had to figure out how the real world works or put in much effort.
Lobster at July 29, 2016 3:12 AM
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