Sloshed In Translation
I'm a man who was deeply disturbed by your advice for "Not A Player" to "get some drinks in a girl" as a way to make moves on her. For my job, I took a class on preventing sexual assault, and learned that most sexual assaults include alcohol use by the assailant or victim. Your advice normalized the calculated use of alcohol in dating. I'm hoping you'll rethink this and run a correction.
--Frustrated Reader
I wrote, "Get some drinks in a girl, then casually touch her arm a few times," not "casually rape her in the alley." The guy signed himself "Not A Player" because he has all the mojo of a lost kitten. My worry wasn't that he'd date rape the girl, but that he'd end the evening by giving her a little wave and running away. Yes, alcohol is often involved in sexual assaults. A knife can be used to cut an apple or mug your granny. People don't do bad things because they have access to a particular substance or implement, but because they're people who do bad things. I didn't invent the use of alcohol in dating, and I don't write as if people reading me are stupid. Countless people drink on dates every day without any need for prosecutor involvement. They do exactly what this guy needs to do: Have a couple beers with a girl so he'll have the guts to kiss her, and so she'll be relaxed enough to be kissed (and by "relaxed" I mean so she's giggly, not so she's unconscious).
Why stop at sexual assault? Many vehicular accidents involve alcohol use. Isn't it important to protest that, too? I mean, that same girl could get behind the wheel, and it'd be all the guy's fault for "getting some drinks in her," even if he attempts to call her a cab or warn that he'll call the cops if she drives drunk. We have to be vigilant about protecting those weak-willed women who can't refuse another drink, right? Who's with me?!
Oh, that's right, the Sexual PC Police don't care about that because it doesn't lend itself as easily to the "men are bad and will do bad things to women if given half a chance because the women have no spines" bullshit.
NumberSix at October 26, 2010 10:50 PM
Yeah but on the other hand, what if someone wrote in... "I'm really nervous about driving. It makes me really tense, and I can't relax behind the wheel"... would you write back, "Have a couple drinks, and then get behind the wheel"?
Though to be honest sounds like the guy in the letter needs a drink more than the girls do...
I do agree, though, at the giggle stage (which I tend to refer to as tipsy rather than drunk) people are still capable of consent. Buy her A drink, not a keg...
NicoleK at October 27, 2010 1:57 AM
The LW sounds like an idiot.
Instead of taking a class where people teach you some sanitized, PC version of what they WISH the world was like.....why don't you open your eyes, look at the world around you and the way people actually behave.
If you used your senses and body to critically experience the world around you instead of listening to what other people told you about it.....you'd realize that the advice Amy gave was highly realistic and 100% on the money.
Peter at October 27, 2010 2:01 AM
I think people who complain about comments like that are externalizing their own fantasies...what clinches it for me is the "I'm a man who was deeply disturbed" formulation. Didn't that "I identify with your victimhood" bullshit become cliched in the 80s?
He's taking it too seriously because he can't imagine any other reason for buying someone drinks than to manipulate someone. He must be a fabulous date.
Ltw at October 27, 2010 4:25 AM
The LW sounds like an idiot.
Oh, I don't know about that, Peter. He does sound awfully earnest, to the point where he sucks all the life out of a room, but I'm not sure "idiot" really fits. I'm with you on the rest of your comment, though.
Old RPM Daddy at October 27, 2010 5:31 AM
Number6, you're so on the money, and I love the "buy her a drink, not a keg" comment, NicoleK.
Just as in the pot thread, some people don't seem to be able to comprehend that others can embibe moderately.
Anybody looking to sexually assault a girl already knows the ploy of too much alcohol. I doubt Amy's advice would suddenly give them this idea.
lovelysoul at October 27, 2010 6:25 AM
I see Amy's point and what the other commenters are saying, but I think some of you are jumping too quickly to extreme bashing of the LW. I think there's something there worth at least a pause for reflection.
When I read Amy's advice again, I found myself wondering why the bit about getting some drinks in the girl was necessary. Wouldn't "You don't just go in cold for a kiss. Casually touch her arm a few times," have been just as effective? The casual touching was what the advice was all about. If Amy thought the guy needed to have a couple of drinks to loosen up, why not tell HIM to have a couple of drinks? "You don't just go in cold for a kiss. Get some drinks in a girl" does sound a little like "here's how to get what you want from her," though of course that's not what Amy intended. Shouldn't the girl herself decide whether she needs a couple of drinks to feel relaxed? And am I the only one who thinks if there's going to be something between them, she shouldn't have to be tipsy to want him to kiss her? Just something to consider...
Mizireni at October 27, 2010 7:39 AM
You have a point, Mizireni. That was my first thought - that the "get some drinks in her" was perhaps a poor choice of words. The advice to loosen up is good, and maybe it would've been better to say, "Offer her a glass of wine.." or something. But, you know, everything can be picked apart, and we all know what was meant. It's foolish to believe that this would truly encourage sexual assault.
lovelysoul at October 27, 2010 7:55 AM
Hey Amy, do you ever feel like you have to give people step-by-step instructions in order not to be misunderstood?
Makes me think about the routine involving Bill Cosby's kids: I want you to go upstairs to the bathroom. I want you to take off your clothes. I want you to get into the tub. I want you to turn the water on...etc.
Pricklypear at October 27, 2010 8:28 AM
For my job, I took a class on preventing sexual assault, ...
I'm not an expert, but I did stay at a Holiday In Express last night.
MeganNJ at October 27, 2010 8:39 AM
Oh fer chrissake. What an obsequious, uptight little neo-Prohibitionist douchebag! Alcohol has been used as a social lubricant for thousands of years. Get over it and get a life.
I've had drinks with dozens and dozens of women, yet none of them ended up unconscious in a dark alley with their underwear around their knees. And yeah, I'm *sure* the shy guy who writes to an advice columnist about how to flirt with women is the same kind of guy who rapes a woman after pouring fourteen shots of Cuervo down her throat.
This reminds me of the retarded DARE-inspired arguments about occasional pot smoking somehow inevitably leading to heroin addiction.
MikeInRealLife at October 27, 2010 9:39 AM
I dunno. I kind of stopped and stared at those words too when I read them in Amy's column. I don't think I'd like to know that a guy who was planning on taking me out also had plans to "get a few drinks into me." Sorry, but there does seem to be a slight "creep factor" involved in this. Why would he want to lower my inhibitions when really, it's his inhibitions that are the problem?
Of course I've got no issues with moderate drinking and did it for years myself before daily and incapacitating migraines became a way of life for me. I'm just saying that the planning of it registers somewhere in the middle range on my scale of ickiness. I probably wouldn't go out with the guy if I knew in advance he was planning to do this.
ie at October 27, 2010 10:16 AM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2010/10/sloshed-in-tran.html#comment-1772011">comment from ieWhy would he want to lower my inhibitions when really, it's his inhibitions that are the problem?
Oh, come on. In dating, everybody's inhibitions are the problem, and it isn't really "inhibitions," but nervousness that you're shaving a few points off if you have a glass of wine.
Amy Alkon at October 27, 2010 10:20 AM
"I took a class on preventing sexual assault...."
Oh, man. You knew whatever came next was going to be sorry.
I am guessing that many a happy sexual encounter--for men and women--was presaged by a drink too. I don't need a class to suspect that.
Spartee at October 27, 2010 10:31 AM
"Oh, come on. In dating, everybody's inhibitions are the problem, and it isn't really "inhibitions," but nervousness that you're shaving a few points off if you have a glass of wine."
@Amy. Sorry, I'm just reporting my honest response. I looked at what you wrote and though, "hmmm, I don't know about that." That's all. I didn't call 911, honest.
A couple of years ago, a park ranger at a local nature park took a shine to me. He wanted to take me out on a date, but I had to put him off for a few days because I had out of town guests coming in and needed to get the house ready (during the work week). I told him my guests were coming in in the middle of the week.
He called at 8 pm on the Monday night (and this is in the dead of winter, when it gets dark at around 4 pm) and asked if he could drop by.
Well, his dropping by, coupled with what I felt was a slight sense of urgency on his part, turned me right off. It just felt too much like a booty call, even though it would have been a first date.
I'm bringing this up because that's the situation that came to mind immediately after I read your advice to this guy.
I would find it off-putting to go out on a date with a guy if I knew he'd been given that advice and was preparing to act on it.
And yes, alcohol is a perfectly acceptable social lubricant when it's used in moderation. I totally get that, so that's not the issue.
ie at October 27, 2010 12:43 PM
Sorry, I just realized I wasn't clear.
I turned down the park ranger guy's offer to stop by. I did that because I felt it could end up being like a booty call and I wasn't in the frame of mind to have to deal with him.
Just clarifying.
ie at October 27, 2010 12:49 PM
would you write back, "Have a couple drinks, and then get behind the wheel"?
Apples and oranges, Nicole. Like Mike said, alcohol is a social lubricant. Many people (not the alcoholics) drink solely for social reasons. You can't extrapolate the advice to use alcohol in dating to other situations.
And I get your point, ie and others, that the calculated forcing of alcohol can come off as creepy, but it's not the fault of the alcohol, it's the fault of the user. If he's coming off creepy, he needs to change his game plan and not look like he's he's being manipulative (which, for the original LW, would be due to his nervousness about doing everything right).
I guess Amy's advice didn't ring any bells with me because I assume (rightly or wrongly) that "get some drinks in her" was a snappier way of saying "have some drinks together." Of course it's going to look bad if he's buying her drinks and not keeping up. But normal people can have one or two drinks with a person on a date for the sole purpose of relaxing. I take Amy's original advice to mean that this guy shouldn't be so hypervigilant, worrying about every little thing he might be doing wrong or what she's thinking about every little thing he thinks he might be doing wrong.
NumberSix at October 27, 2010 1:51 PM
Yes...NumberSix, it's the fault of the user, not the alcohol. I'd feel the same way if a girlfriend of mine confided that she was planning to "get a few drinks" into a guy. It's the intent that seems a bit flawed.
I know of woman locally who reached her early 40s, decided she wasn't going to meet anyone soon enough to have a kid, and so she hooked up with a man who was obviously alcoholic and seriously disorganized in his life (well, it makes sense that he would be).
So in other words, she saw him as someone who could do the trick and get her pregnant. I don't think she's asked for child support or anything, but I think what she did was creepy too. I mean, there are sperm banks, but that was the choice she made.
ie at October 27, 2010 2:56 PM
You can't seriously be comparing this woman who took a mercenary approach to getting herself a child with the wimpy guy who's afraid of rejection in the original letter. Not all situations that involve planning and intent are equal.
The socially shy and/or anxious need set game plans to keep from being overwhelmed by the situations. I'm a social person, but I sometimes have to combat my anxiety with step-by-step instructions to myself about what I'm going to do when I get to the party or date or whatever it is that has unfamiliar people. That's what I took Amy's advice to mean. If he didn't need actual instructions, he wouldn't have written to her to ask for them.
Yes, like I said, when you spell it out, it can come off as creepy that he's planning to get the woman a drink (while he has one as well, I sincerely hope). But I don't think the intent is flawed because of the use of the alcohol as a relaxant. People do it all the time without actively thinking that's what they're doing. Men and women encourage their dates to have a drink so they don't come off as disapproving of drinking and so both parties can be relaxed enough to actually enjoy what can boil down to being an interview. This guy just needs to think about it a little more explicitly than most people so he can stop relegating himself to the friendzone.
NumberSix at October 27, 2010 9:04 PM
I didn't say it was the same. It was just a story I know about where alcohol was involved and the intention was a bit mercenary. The theme seemed similar, that's all.
Not everyone drinks, so alcohol isn't always the answer. I get anxious too sometimes, but I don't quell it with alcohol because I can't. Half a glass of wine and I could end up at emergency with a full-blown migraine an hour later.
So what do I do when I'm in this position? I was asked out yesterday morning, by someone associated with work. He's a few years younger than I am and is funny as hell and I like him. I also know he golfs and I just recently took it up. So when he suggested coffee or supper, I suggested we go to an indoor video golf course instead. If I'm focussed on doing something un like that, I won't be nervous.
Look, this is an opinion column, so words matter. Suggesting to get a few drinks into someone struck me as being a bit off and I don't think I'm alone. I'm stating my opinion and bringing another anecdote to the table. What's the big deal here?
ie at October 28, 2010 3:22 AM
I guess it's just me, but maybe there is something a bit pathetic about someone who -needs- a drink to socialize. Especially if they need the OTHER person to drink in order to socialize.
Alcohol is fun and all, but its a crutch. If you start needing it, it's a bit sad.
NicoleK at October 28, 2010 8:11 AM
"...maybe there is something a bit pathetic about someone who -needs- a drink to socialize."
Condescension duly noted. But, crutch or not, a couple of beers is still a hell of a lot quicker and cheaper than a few years of therapy (most forms of which probably won't work anyway).
As hard as it is for extroverts to understand, some people are just naturally shy or maybe a little socially awkward, and having a couple of drinks often helps them make friends or meet romantic prospects. There's nothing "sad" or "pathetic" about introverts; they're just not extroverts. I see absolutely nothing wrong with anyone having a couple of social drinks.
I'm a reasonably confident guy, and a pretty good swing/country dancer. Yet I still find it easier (not impossible, but easier) to ask a random woman to dance if I've had two beers. If I were a shy man, I might find it virtually impossible to approach an attractive woman without the relaxation of a couple of drinks. Several of my friends fit in the latter category, and I certainly don't look down on them for having a drink while in an appropriate social situation.
MikeInRealLife at October 28, 2010 8:59 AM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2010/10/sloshed-in-tran.html#comment-1772632">comment from MikeInRealLifeAs hard as it is for extroverts to understand, some people are just naturally shy or maybe a little socially awkward, and having a couple of drinks often helps them make friends or meet romantic prospects.
Exactly.
And I wrote about introverts here:
http://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2010/08/the-larva-of-th.html
Amy Alkon at October 28, 2010 9:11 AM
Maybe LW wouldn't have been so judgemental if Amy had been more specific as regards to BAC or oz of alcohol relative to weight.
That presents its own issues, though. "How heavy are you" wouldn't be my first choice for a pick up line.
I probably should have had a certified translator, just so there were no misunderstandings when I met Mrs D. Somehow, we worked it out. It is probably illegal today.
MarkD at October 28, 2010 9:16 AM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2010/10/sloshed-in-tran.html#comment-1772638">comment from MarkDMaybe LW wouldn't have been so judgemental if Amy had been more specific as regards to BAC or oz of alcohol relative to weight.
Oh, please. I got a lot of letters like this. If you're that big a moron, you're not going to be at a reading level where you're reading my column.
Amy Alkon at October 28, 2010 9:34 AM
I definitely qualify as an introvert, so I'm not sure why you're equating the need for a couple of drinks with introversion. That's defining the use of "alcohol as a need" rather than as a recreational thing to do on occasion. Even before I had crushing migraines (and would take the occasional drink), I didn't naturally reach for alcohol every time I felt uneasy, (although I understand the context you are explaining yourself in and have no problem with how you use it to loosen up on a dance floor).
Yes, being social is really difficult for me, which is why I choose activities that suit. Christmas parties? Weddings? Baptisms, etc? I do the come early leave early thing and everyone who knows me knows that I'm like that and they love me anyway.
I can also, on occasion, spot another person like me and sit down for a while and have a good chat with them. There's usually a sense of mutual relief, so it can actually be interesting and fun. Or, if there's a pool table nearby, or some other amusement, I try to get a game in with another monosyllablic person. I find ways to manage without drinking and now, especially, I HAVE to because I'm almost always the designated driver.
ie at October 28, 2010 10:59 AM
I'm an extrovert and I am on a dating website. (No boo-ing please) When I am to meet a new guy for our first face-to-face, I make sure we meet where I can get "a couple of drinks in me". I may be an extrovert, but I still get nervous and the alcohol "takes the edge off". I just want to clarify that needing/wanting a drink to relax is not related to introversion or extroversion.
Just sayin' at October 28, 2010 1:44 PM
Standard feminist bullshit. All men are rapists awaiting an opportunity.
Beth at October 28, 2010 2:57 PM
ie and NicoleK: I didn't say that it's okay to need a drink to socialize, I said it's okay to need a set game plan and that intending to get your date a drink isn't automatically creepy or predatory. Needing a drink could definitely constitute a problem and wanting one to relax, less so. I, too find ways to manage without drinking because I'm such a lightweight that having more than one drink puts me right to sleep. But my point, which you seem to be missing here, is that the intent in this case isn't inherently bad. There is a difference between "I'm going to get my date a drink so we can both relax a little and I won't be so nervous" and "I'm going to get my date a drink so her defenses will be down and I can take advantage," n'est-ce pas?
All I'm saying is that we shouldn't necessarily condemn just because there exists intent. As I said earlier, people have always used alcohol as a relaxant on dates without actively thinking about what their motivations are, so we need not punish someone just for thinking about it explicitly to combat anxiety or fear.
NumberSix at October 28, 2010 8:06 PM
I'm not saying it's bad either, as in suggesting, "do you want to meet up for drinks?" I mean, then it's clear. But the point I'm making is perhaps more subtle.
Suggesting "to get a few drinks into someone" just doesn't sound great. It sounds as if the choice, for the woman or for the man (Beth, are you reading?), is being left out of the equation along with the implicit rather than explicit idea that it's being done to "relax" someone who, really, may not need relaxing.
I'm not condemning anything, I just think that since I'm an adult with a functioning brain, I'd like it if people didn't make assumptions about what they think I need. Especially on a first date.
It's like that park ranger I mentioned; I got the feeling he thought I really needed to get laid not because I did, but because he did. It just came across in how he conducted himself, the conversation, the fact he was trying to accelerate the "getting to know you process" etc. It just turned me off and I know that getting turned off is a highly subjective thing, but it's what happened in that case.
Bad word choice is probably the culprit here and, as some of you have pointed out, it was just because stylistically, for Amy to put it that way, was probably just snappier.
Let's put it this way. If you were out on a date.
Okay so everything's fine and in the middle of your date the guys says "hey, you look nervous, how about I get a couple of drinks into you?" You may not get up and throw the table over, but I bet you, like most people, would mentally throw up a red flag over a comment like that. I know I would.
I brought up the story about the woman and the pregnancy to make a point. Alcohol CAN be used to lower someone's inhibitions further than just to get in a good night kiss without breaking a nose. It's an extreme example of someone taking advantage, but at it's heart, this phrase of "getting drinks into someone" feels like it's in the same ballpark.
Just my feelings on the subject.
ie at October 29, 2010 4:06 AM
I should just say here too that I'm always impressed with the amount of writing that Amy puts out on this site daily. It's a lot and the odd phrase that doesn't sit right with some people isn't a big matter. I make plenty of typos in my own posts, so I'm not trying to suggest there needs to be a higher bar for her in this case.
ie at October 29, 2010 4:25 AM
I'd like it if people didn't make assumptions about what they think I need.
He's not assuming you need it, he's offering (in our hypothetical situation). I think I've found where we've gone wrong here, ie. The guy should absolutely NOT convey to his date that he's been planning, because that just comes off as stiff and/or manipulative. I'm just saying that his planning would be for his own benefit to combat his anxiety and fear of being rejected. He should definitely include in his plan an effort to come across as more casual than that. Like a breezy, "Can I get you a drink? They have great martinis here" and not "We need to have drinks now." And if the date does not want to drink, she should then politely refuse and suggest a replacement beverage. "No, thanks, but I'd love an iced tea." Because it would be incredibly rude for her to get defensive or offended at the suggestion of a drink if she doesn't want one, but equally as rude for him to insist she have a drink. Offer once, decline once, no explanations are necessary from either side. Personal philosophy: dating would be easier if people were more polite to each other.
Also, having any more alcohol than just barely relaxes you is a terrible idea on a date, especially on a first date. Knowing your limits is a must. Like I said above, I'd never have more than one drink on a date because I don't want him to have to carry me out of the restaurant.
Again, planning so that he's more comfortable, not so that he comes off as following a script or trying to get her drunk in order to take advantage. Like planning conversation starters, it should never sound planned.
NumberSix at October 29, 2010 2:07 PM
My response to LW's controlling drivel would be shorter and sweeter: "Oh STFU".
Lobster at October 29, 2010 3:33 PM
She said to buy her a couple of drinks, not to put date rape drugs in them!
Rozita at October 30, 2010 12:42 PM
I brought up the issue of the woman hearing about the guy's plan for a reason.
I grew up in a small town and usually, when a guy liked you, you heard about it through a friend before you heard it from the guy himself. I'm sure this sort of grapevine exists in other groups of people, like a circle of friends at a high school in a big city.
So...I looked at the advice from the point of view of a woman who's been told, "hey, so and so really likes you, he's a bit nervous and he says he's going get a couple of drinks down you tonight when you go out."
It's not as far-fetched as it seems when you think of how some people like to gossip. Or, it could be a friend heard about the plan and told you because she cares about your safety. As in "hey, maybe you shouldn't drive to that place to meet him. Take a taxi instead."
If I heard or overheard this guy's plan in an office setting, for example, I would probably NOT pass along the guy's precise plan--as in "hey Phyllis, George plans on getting a couple of drinks into you tonight"--but I would mention the taxi part. Or suggest she take mad money just in case he gets drinks over the limit and he's the one driving.
I dunno. Am I really being that unreasonable?
ie at October 30, 2010 2:52 PM
Geez...I'm in f------ typo land today. I meant "drink" over the limit.
ie at October 30, 2010 2:54 PM
I don't think that's unreasonable at all, ie. The date knowing about the "plan" (either from others or from him by the way he acts) is a concern. Because it does sound sort of mercenary to reveal any kind of forethought on a date beyond what, where and when. Like I said, I don't think it's inherently bad to have a plan or talking points or things like that. But, ideally, whoever needs the plan should not be talking about it, for the reasons you describe. When I go to a party, I don't tell my friends that first I'm going to say hello to the host, then I'll put my coat down, then I'll take the long way around the room to the drinks and/or food, then I'll find someone I know to talk to, then I'll mingle a bit, then I'll promise myself I'll find someone new to talk to so I don't look like either a snob or a wallflower, then I'll go back to the food... Because even though it helps me not get overwhelmed in crowds (even though I love talking to people, go figure), it would sound weird to anyone not inside my head.
Do you think our attitudes toward prior planning in social situations, especially dating, are era-related? Because I have to think at least part of it is due to the advent of internet dating, where there are numerous men and women who date by scripts and life plans, and the whole thing ends up feeling more interview-y than it really should. And in times gone by, there were set scripts to follow: a gentleman came calling, but only when the young lady's family was home, then they would work up to taking short walks alone, etc. I know that hearing about a guy's plan to encourage me to have a couple of drinks would be off-putting at first, even if he meant it innocently, even though I don't think it's a bad idea to break a date down into manageable chunks to reduce anxiety.
Though neither do I condone acting like you're really into the other person just so you can score a free dinner and/or sex. Complete playacting is as much a turnoff as being brutally honest about your intentions, and more destructive considering it takes more time to figure out.
So, I guess my thinking is this: know your motivations, come up with a plan if you need it, but do not act like you have one.
NumberSix at October 30, 2010 8:51 PM
I think you're right about the era thing. I have only had a brief experience of online dating and I hated it. And, when I think about it, a lot of the men I met during that experience presented with certain values that seem to be concentrated.
What I mean is that they seemed very concerned about looks, which, while I know they're important, the men themselves didn't really match my ideal either, but I at least gave them a chance to talk and tell me who they were. (And, given that I have no problem meeting men apart from internet dating, I did wonder why this seemed to go so completely badly for me.)
Anyway, I think everyone deserves a chance and sometimes a small spark of animation can completely reverse a first impression. At least that's what's happened to me on occasion and I let the guys talk because I wanted to see if it would happen.
However, some of the men I met weren't even that courteous to me, which is what put me off internet dating so totally. It seemed like for some men it brought out the worst in them in terms of their preferences (in that their preferences were so aggressively presented they seemed more like prejudices).
So as you can see, I really didn't enjoy meeting these men. And, I did think it had something to do with the fact that our ages, and how most of us had previously met partners via life circumstances, played a part in how these encounters panned out. It's like they automatically treated me as if I was a desperato and I immediately felt at a huge disadvantage.
Young people seem to have taken to internet dating much better. And, although I hear the odd complaint, they seem to have adapted much more readily and easily. I give them a lot of credit because meeting someone that way ISN'T easy.
My mom met her boyfriend when she was 69. She'd been widowed for 5 years and was complaining about being lonely, so I arranged a day when I said we were going to do something special. On the way to the dating agency (this a while ago), I told her where we were going. She was so flabbergasted that I thought she was going to have a heart attack. And, she really wanted me to turn the car around!
Anyway, I got her there, she went through the 3 hour interview and lo and behold, the first man they sent to her about a week later ended up being her partner for 10 years. She's in a nursing home a few hours away now (with me) but he still calls her everyday.
She always told me how hard that first meeting was...and it was even awkward for me to meet him, even though I 'd been the person who organized it.
So...I do think younger people are very brave to go out and search for partners this way. It isn't easy. My guess too is that a nice by-product of this process is that people who do it probably learn how to handle rejection better and more maturely. That screening process seems brutal to me, but I hear about people handling it with grace all the time.
This is totally off-topic, but you just got me thinking NumberSix.
ie at October 31, 2010 5:50 AM
It does seem that internet dating may have had an adverse effect on some people. I know Amy has had letters before of the "should I dump X because I don't like the way he parts his hair?" variety. So, while the internet sites are great for widening your pool of potential partners and weeding through the undesirable ones before meeting them, it also helps out those people who will reject someone within the first thirty seconds. They know they have plenty of other dates coming, so why should they "settle?" Even if their rigid restrictions leave no time to actually get to know the person a little, like those guys were doing with you. It's like they think of it as mail-order dating. They ordered a sweater, but when it came they didn't like the color as much as they thought, so they're sending it back for something more perfect.
This actually reminds me a bit of the original "Not a Player" LW that this letter references. He was too busy dividing women into the categories of "I wouldn't want to date her, but I'll sleep with her" and "I want to spend the rest of my life with her, so I will in no way let her know I have any sort of romantic feelings" that he was sabotaging himself. He wasn't dumping his dates because of something inconsequential, but he was so afraid of rejection that he immediately shut down date-mode and went into friend-mode.
Sorry, bit of a thread-jack, but your comment got me thinking about the original LW again.
NumberSix at October 31, 2010 10:09 PM
Yeah, that's a great way of explaining what happens (I mean the rejecting). I have a girlfriend who does the internet dating thing consistently and she's had a couple of relationships with guys she's met there, but she's also had the rejection thing where she's dismissed after 30 seconds. It's hard and I give her a lot of credit. I stopped after about half a dozen guys.
Another thing that I think feeds into what you're saying is that a lot of people go online immediately after a break up. I think they use it as a safe forum to go into rejection mode (and usually in a serial way) to boost their ego.
My mom's boyfriend has a daughter around my age, and when her common-law husband walked out a few months ago, that's what she did. She saw it as fun (and probably a chance to "get even" with the opposite sex). I didn't quite see it that way--I mean, it was almost like I wanted to get online too and warn these guys that this was a slightly sadistic form of entertainment for her--but I guess those are the chances that those men are willing to take.
It's funny though. I do know of a couple of young couples who have met and married this way--via internet dating--and they seem a lot more mature than a lot of people my own age.
ie at November 1, 2010 4:39 AM
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